EDIT: I'm not advocating taking 3/3 in Moonglow. I selected those points because Wowhead won't let me move to the next tier unless I fill the previous one out. We all have our own opinions about whether they should go in Moonglow, Genesis, or Improved Moonfire. Feel free to follow your heart here.
There's a pretty well defined talent tree layout for Balance druids right now. Here it is (clicky to go to wowhead)!
Notice that this talent tree has a 56/0/13 layout, leaving us two points to play with. A quick note on
Moonglow:
I placed 3 points in here to reach the next tier. Two of those points could go into
Improved Moonfire or all three could make their way into
Genesis but both of these talents contribute a very small DPS increase after 4T10. In fact, DoTs in general are up for debate, but there might be more on that at a later date.
So now that the staples are covered, what are we to do with our extra two points? Hopefully, by the time I'm done rambling here, you will be able to make a decision!
I'll be working my way through the talent tree from top to bottom, so please don't take this as a ranking of any kind.
Brambles
Brambles - Damage from your Thorns and Entangling Roots increased by 25/50/75% and damage done by your Treants increased by 5/10/15%. In addition, damage from your Treants and attacks done to you while you have Barkskin active have a 5/10/15% chance to daze the target for 3 sec.
Brambles is a nice utility talent. It provides a two part benefit. Your tanks get a better thorns and you get better treants. This talent shines because it's not really situational. It provides a boost on every boss fight and if you're one of those treant trash druids, it provides a boost there too. The downside here is that your treants are still a little flimsy on some fights that have massive AoE or other uncontrolled damage. On the other hand, you should be placing thorns on your tank for every fight/boss pull.
Owlkin Frenzy
Owlkin Frenzy - Attacks done to you while in Moonkin form have a 5/10/15% chance to cause you to go into a Frenzy, increasing your damage by 10%, cause you to be immune to pushback while casting Balance spells and restore 2% base mana every 2 sec. Lasts 10 sec.
Owlkin Frenzy is a hot topic these days. Let me point out that this
used to proc on BQL all the time. That is a thing of the past. Since the term "attacks done to you" can seem a little vague at times, I'm going to do my best to boil it down. In general (yes there are a few exceptions like Coldflame), Owlkin Frenzy will only proc off of direct attacks against your character, not auras or passive damage. This greatly reduces the talents appeal. In an ideal raid setting, you're getting very minimal splash damage from bosses. The uptime for Owlkin Frenzy is low on all fights and (if things go well?) can be zero.
Typhoon
Typhoon - You summon a violent Typhoon that does 1190 Nature damage when in contact with hostile targets, knocking them back and dazing them for 6 sec.
With a reduction in the mana cost to this spell, it has become a little more appealing. Typhoon offers a utility AoE that has some direct impact on fights like Deathbringer Saurfang, where raid composition might dictate that you provide a stun and/or knockback. However, you wouldn't want that knockback on trash fights, presenting somewhat of a financial dilemma in terms of glyphing. It is generally accepted that the knockback on Typhoon has very limited use and most guilds will require you to glyph it to remove the knockback. From my understanding, the daze
will still be applied (verify?). It sounds like this spell is gaining more utility in hardmodes, but I haven't reached this content yet, so I can't really say for certain.
Gale Winds
Gale Winds - Increases damage done by your Hurricane and Typhoon spells by 15/30%, and increases the range of your Cyclone spell by 2/4 yards.
Gale Winds provides a great boost to trash dps, and who doesn't like to see 20k on their dps meter?! Truth be told, I think this would be a hands-down best choice if it also boosted Starfall. Here's to hoping! As it is, it can be a nice compliment to Typhoon and any boss that requires you to handle a bunch of little adds. I personally use Gale Winds on Lady Deathwhisper and Gunship, along with all trash pulls. Much like Owlkin Frenzy, this talent can be very useful or completely useless. The big difference is that you should know ahead of time whether it is going to be useless, allowing you to either switch specs if you run dual Balance, or avoid picking it up altogether.
TL:DR
We have two "floating" points in our standard talent tree and 4 talents that provide mediocre dps or utility boosts. Of the four, Brambles is starting to look the most attractive to me for a single target DPS build. I have a dual Balance spec so I don't have to make the choice between an AoE boost or a single target boost, because I have one spec for each. However, if you only have one spec, then I would definitely take a look at which fights you are having trouble on or which strategies you will be using. If you're going to need to provide some utility on Saurfang or H Lady Deathwhisper, maybe Typhoon and 1 in Gale Winds is the way to go.
Graylo had a funny comment on the choices:
In the end. debating betweein OF and Brambles is like debating which is better between a Pinto or a Yugo. One may be better but they both suck.
I haven't decided if I will change anything yet. But if my guild goes with an AoE strat for heroic LDW then I'm sure the choice will be 2/2 Gale Winds. Though I may put a point in to Typhoon, to free up my other spec for something different.
10 comments:
with the exception of dreamwalker, moonglow is completely worthless since it does nothing to contribute to dps
a moonkin raiding 25man icc should never have mana issues
i run 2/5 genesis and 2/2 imp moonfire and typhoon since i do not dual moonkin, i also happen to have a phylactery, so keeping dots up has added value for me
though they may boost tree damage, a resto druid likely has the free points to put into brambles, and they should have higher sp
While I agree that a boomkin in ICC 25 shouldn't have mana issues, I'm also running in a 10 man. Last night our replenishment was sick and couldn't make it, so I found out just how quickly I could burn through mana. It made me sad.
However, you should notice that I mentioned people could (and tend to) put points in impMoonfire or Genesis instead of Moonglow, so I'm not sure why you chose to focus on that.
As for Brambles, none of my resto druid folks have it. However, that's a minor part of the talent itself. The true boost (and reason for picking up the talent in the first place) is the treant damage. My comment at the end was focused towards reminding Balance druids that casting Thorns on a tank is something we can do, as many times I see the tank without Thorns.
If you are considering dropping MF then I have to assume that you are in virtually full 264 gear or somewhere close. 1 point in intensity would offer you virtually the same benefit as 3 in Moonglow and offer you 2 points to spend in Genesis and another point to spend elsewhere.
Given that you are in said gear, and probably at or over the crit soft cap, you could also consider dropping 3 points in Improved Insect Swarm as they will basically only be offering you 1% dps buff to Wrath each.
So now you suddenly have 6 spare points to spend... Since the BQL-Owlkin Frenzy nerf people are once again questioning the validity of OkF, so I wouldnt rush to put points there. 3 points are too easily lost in Typhoon and Gale Winds so those become staple. so now you only have 3 points in Genesis, 3 in Brambles and 3 in OkF to consider... so the question is - do you want a minor buff to Insect Swarm that you will be keeping up all the time, or a decent 15% to Treants that you can only use every 3 minutes?
(I am assuming that as you dont take 2/2 iMF that you are ommiting it from the rotation and glyphing GoStF, GoFocus and GoIS)
Sorry correction: You wouldnt have an extra point spare after putting 2 from Moonglow into Genesis as you would be putting it into Intensity...
You would end up with 2 points at the end which I would personally put into 4/5 Genesis.
@ Lespaul
I'm not considering dropping DoTs from my rotation, but I know that it is being discussed. I'm not at the gear level where that makes sense. Currently, I use my DoTs on the move or to amplify my current (or upcoming) Eclipse.
In General -
Moonglow is not selected for its wondrous regen ability, but rather as a path to the next tier. I stated this in my post but it seems folks don't read what comes after a picture.
i have not done any maths, and im sure many a "omg n00b" is to be thrown after this comment, but, what about taking 1 out of natures reach, 1 in typhoon, and the other 2 left in imp moonfire. It's worked pretty well for me, but as far as boomkin go, im not the best so, i don't really know...
@anon 1
Nature's Reach is a lot like Tuskarr's Vitality. In general, it is hard to quantify in terms of additional DPS, but the general consensus is that it is invaluable. You will want the extra threat cushion (especially in smaller groups where tricks or MD might not always be available) an the extra range is always nice in fights where you may get stuck in awkward positions (think saurfang or BQL).
Genesis? Its one of the worst in our tree
It's 1% to our DOT damage, my dots account for 8.1 of my damage vs bosses, looking at my last raid's WMO. But i did get rid of the IS Glyph so lets call it 10%. So genesis would have boosted my total damage 0.1% per point.
Kaug
the Daze for typhoon is still applied to targets immune to the knockback or you you glyph it(its only a minor glyph anyway), which can help a ton for the val'kirs on LK.
@ Kaug
From a DPS standpoint, Genesis is a higher DPS per point than moonglow if you aren't having mana problems. The only time that moonglow becomes a better DPS talent is when it actually extends your cast number past that which would send you oom. But you're absolutely right, as far as DPS talents go, Genesis is one of the worst.
@ Dillybear
Thank you for the confirmation. That does indeed add to the appeal of Typhoon, especially since the knockback is situational at best, but that daze is never a bad thing (yet).
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